Jason,
I was thinking in all the questions that you made in previous email and I
made the conclusion that first we need to find out who we are.
I think that before we define how the foundation will run, we need to ask
who wants to join the foundation.
Part of the trick to what you are suggesting is making people aware of the
survey. There is also difficulty in interpreting it and asking the right
questions. Perhaps more can be learned from the discourse that has already
happened.
We need to run a survey. Questions like :
Which board do you use ? White Black ?
We know Bone Black is the most popular.
Do you use more boards than Beagles ? Like Intel Galileo, raspberry pi ?
What type of use you do, for yourself, to community, commercial ?
Which license you use for your work ? BSD, GPL , Private ?
Which language do you use ? C, C++, Python, Java?
Do you develop a cape for Beagles ? If yes, what is the purpose?
Do you agree to pay a small fee to the foundation ? If yes, what you
expect in return ?
This last part is most interesting to me. if we get organized, can we do
things to improve the state of things for the community?
Yes, my point is understand the current community and what we need .
If your return was : "A very good documentation about Beagles. How To
develop for beagles in any language that fits my needs". Do you agree that
only people who paid the small fee should get access to documentation ?
I'd like to avoid charging for bits and give time or atoms in exchange for
money if you are trying to say what exclusively someone should get for
paying a membership fee.
My point is who pays the server running the forum, wiki etc. Or this we
already covered by another way ?
Would you like to join the foundation?
Do you would pay for that? If yes, how much?
What do you miss in Beagles ? Library's to do your work ? A better
Documentation ? Cheaper price for boards ? A Store to sell your cape ? A
store to find all the capes that are develop for beagle.
This are a few questions that I have in mind. After we discover who we
are, we can decide where to go.
And you, what you think ?
if the information is kept open to the community, then I'd be fine with
you running a survey. Not cool to collect data about Beaglers for private
benefit.
Yes, of course. Anyone will be able to see the result.
Thanks
Cheers
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Lucas A. Tanure Alves
+55 (19) 988176559
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Thanks
Forgive me if I’m off topic, or speaking to a different point. But I keep seeing mention of “fees”. So, as an example, I used to get paid $50( price would be much higher now days ) / hr as a security / systems consultant, and in light of this, where is my fee for helping the community ?
Yeah yeah, relax I’m not asking for money this is just a flip of the script so to speak. Also I am not purporting that I personally deserve special treatment or anything of that nature. However, there are a great deal of people who contribute their time to various projects, not least of which is the Debian team. None of these people, or groups are asking for your money.
So, before you start asking for money for whatever, I think you need to consider very carefully the individuals, foundations, and corporations who donate their own time free of charge so this community can benefit.
There are other things that bother me about this whole thing as well. But I am waiting for something specific / concise to be discussed before I comment to those points.
I agree “fees” sounds a bit shady to me. How much of these goes back to all other projects you pull from/use and so on? Why would an end user want to pay “fees” to join when no other boards out there require this outside the cost of their board. I dont have to pay “fees” to any project I dev for other than my time. The eco system no matter what should not have an additional fee, raise the cost of your boards if you’re loosing out so much you have to want to collect fees from users/developers or whom ever just to join the “BB Foundation”. This all seems to be going the wrong direction in my opinion
Well I was not implying anything shady. There are many people here who have spent time on projects related to the community, and it could be considered fair for them to be compensated. Passed that there are other individuals who take advantage, and make money off all of these others peoples ideas, while completely depleting hardware stock world wide. By this, I mean people selling products based off of beagle designs.
Is this right or wrong ? Then if wrong, how do you deal with it ? I honestly do not know, but the more I think about it the more it seems like a lose - lose situation for everyone.
There is also much more to consider. For example: Servers that provide documentation, working images, etc need to be paid for, and maintained. So who really needs to pay for this ?
If you think about it, the people who need the documentation need to pay for it. However, even people working in / for a non profit organization can / do get paid.
Not a very simple situation to consider is it ?
By shady I mean there should be no required fee, its not the end users/developers responsibility to pick up costs that were not considered initially in the business plan. No one forces anyone to volunteer their time for this community or any others in the open source world, expecting your time to be compensated any further than personal satisfaction should not be left up to end users or other developers. There are also plenty outside of the “main” BBB community who help maintain its use without any such needs. Expecting your “piece” cause you did X or Y at some point, still, or plan to in the future should only be based on your personal desire to help and give back, not out of some agenda of I should get a piece to pay for my BW, hardware, and what other personal time costs you want to throw in. Again no one ever forced you to do anything for the BBB or any community you decided to take part in. Run donation drives with clear pictures how it would be spread out because it would only be fair to share anything raised with all the rest of the bits that get used to make the BBB, such as Debian, Yocto, Robert Nelson, and everything else in the stack sold on the BBB. The community in itself is and should be able to self sustain. To me the flaw seems to be in the pricing of the BBB then relying on the end users to pay another chunk to make sure things continue on. A broken business model should be fixed, if more money is needed then get it when the board is sold. Leave the rest to community donations, and the eco system itself which is open source should thrive on its own, when it can no longer do so then it should fail so the next thing can come along. Maybe making $0 per board or however little it really is as has been said numerous times for awhile ago should have never been allowed to continue.
Guys,
I really think that the best way is not to charge fee, but take donations. And that money goes to maintain servers. And maybe something like U$1 in beagle price to also maintain severs.
But the main point here get the input from community.
Thanks