Transcripts from last 2 weekly IRC meetings

July 31:

11:57 vipulnayyar has joined (~vipul_nay@
11:58 ZubairLK has joined (
11:59 ZubairLK: gm everyone :slight_smile:
11:59 koen: hey ZubairLK
11:59 ZubairLK: hi koen
11:59 ZubairLK: did you find out about the 3.11 boot thing?
12:01 ZubairLK: koen:
12:01 vvu has joined (~vvu@
12:01 koen: not yet
12:02 jkridner: hello
12:02 vvu: hello people!
12:02 ZubairLK: hello
12:02 tcort: hi
12:02 anujdeshpande: Evening
12:03 av500: hello vvu
12:03 jkridner: looks for attendance
12:04 av500: does the atten-dance
12:04 ZubairLK: aye aye captain
12:04 jkridner: notes anujdeshpande, hatguy, tcort, vvu, jj2baile, ZubairLK and vmayoral
12:04 hatguy_ has joined (~Parav@
12:04 hatguy has left IRC (Disconnected by services)
12:04 hatguy_ is now known as hatguy
12:04 jkridner: first order of business is to check on the midterms.
12:05 hatguy: hello everyone
12:05 jj2baile: morning
12:05 jkridner: ka6sox, jj2baile: what is your status on completing mid-terms?
12:05 jj2baile: I’ll go do them right now
12:05 jkridner: jj2baile: when is your next status update?
12:06 ds2 has joined (
12:06 vvu: jkridner: my week #6 update will be in just a moment up on the blog. draft status right now
12:06 jj2baile: I’ve written slides for the video, but have not actually completed the video. I had wanted to include the video in my next status update
12:06 hatguy: just updated his blogs
12:07 jkridner: vvu: thanks.
12:07 jj2baile: im having a bit of difficulty with the video. I know what to do in a high level, but actual implementation is, i dont know.
12:07 jkridner: jj2baile: please split up the task if it means you can get a report in before 7 days pass from last report.
12:07 jj2baile: I guess ive never made a video before
12:07 jj2baile: jkridner: Ok
12:07 jj2baile: jkridner: Would you like to see my slides so far?
12:08 jkridner: I went to a GSoC meet-up at OSCON and they made it sound like I might be too easy on status reports.
12:08 jkridner: most of the administrators and mentors there said they required daily status reports.
12:08 ds2: jj2baile: what equip r u using?
12:08 ZubairLK: likes the way runs things
12:09 ZubairLK: doesn’t want to go for gsoc in those orgs next summer
12:09 jkridner: jj2baile: I’d be interested in you sharing your work-in-progress with the community, i.e., your blog and
12:09 jj2baile: ds2: Well I have access to a video camera, but based on discussion with ka6sox, I might mainly just need the slides and a screen cap program and micrphone (and actual video for a small part)
12:09 av500: its not the video that is important
12:09 av500: its the status update
12:10 jj2baile: Ok.
12:10 jkridner: +1 slides + screen cap + audio is good
12:10 jkridner: +1 on status report being more important
12:10 jj2baile: alright, thanks for the confirmation
12:10 ds2: jj2baile: prehaps post a draft of the slides asap?
12:10 jkridner: actually, +1000 on that. weekly status is a requirement
12:10 jj2baile:
12:10 jkridner: video is desired.
12:11 vmayoral: So should we try to update our blogs more often?
12:11 jj2baile: Ok, the video was starting to get to me.
12:11 jkridner: jj2baile, ka6sox: what code is working?
12:11 vmayoral: Maybe every two-three days?
12:11 ds2: yes, a basic scribbling is better then silence.
12:11 av500: maybre a GSoC for next year should be: “how to use the BBB to make a video to report status on your GSoC”
12:11 jj2baile: For my next blog update I’ll want to compile a bunch of the instructions on building panto’s kernel and my code
12:11 jkridner: vmayoral: yes… no later 7 days between updates. 2-3 days is quite reasonable.
12:11 jj2baile: also perhaps a high level overview of panto’s testpru code
12:12 jkridner: any time you make progress, you should be thinking about sharing that progress.
12:12 vvu: is a bit pissed; lot of bots spam my blog
12:12 ds2: or even not make progress
12:12 ds2: say something went wrong
12:12 jkridner: if you haven’t made any progress in 7 days, you should be ALARMED!
12:12 jj2baile: jkridner: The code from linux userspace to the PRU hasn’t been done yet. I need to dig into panto’s stuff.
12:12 jkridner: agree, if you are stuck, write a blog post to say how you are stuck!
12:13 ds2: i.e. tried xyz code, it crashed test chip hard. currently stumped
12:13 jkridner: ka6sox: yt?
12:13 jkridner: jj2baile: is that a today thing?
12:14 jj2baile: Yeah.
12:15 bradfa: jkridner, not sure if ka6sox is present
12:15 jkridner: btw, vmayoral: thanks for joining the irc channel. please let me know when you cannot attend our weekly. sorry if I missed e-mails saying so.
12:15 jj2baile: jkridner: He said he would be away for a few days
12:15 jj2baile: In yosemite i believe
12:16 ds2: when is midterms due? today?
12:16 jj2baile: ds2: Friday
12:16 jkridner: Friday noon.
12:16 Ceriand has joined (~ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand)
12:16 ds2: jj2baile: has ka6sox taken care of it?
12:16 jkridner: ds2: he has not
12:16 ds2: oh crap
12:16 jj2baile: He had told me he would try to do it monday, but i’m unsure if he has actually
12:16 jkridner: that is the only one not yet completed.
12:17 jj2baile: Oh. Ok
12:17 jkridner: It was only open to be done on Tuesday.
12:17 ds2: jkridner: are you able to reassign mentors in midstream?
12:17 vmayoral: jkridner: apologies for not joining more often :(. I definitely have to improve that
12:17 jkridner: all other mentor and student evaluations have been completed.
12:17 ZubairLK: :slight_smile:
12:17 ds2: IIRC, only the official one can do it.
12:18 jkridner: I’ve dropped a line to carols, since I have similar concerns for the final eval.
12:18 ds2: ok.
12:18 ZubairLK: if i read the faq correctly, org admin can do it as well…
12:18 ds2: blah
12:20 vmayoral: jkridner: i’m still waiting for the audio cape. I was supposed to start working with it this week but since i don’t have it i rescheduled that. Any idea when it’ll arrive?
12:21 ds2: Bradfa: would u be able to swap in and do the eval if u had to?
12:21 vvu: jkridner: post is up
12:21 eFfeM: tcort: when becomes having the cape an issue for you ?
12:21 bradfa: ds2, I’d probably be a bad choice, panto might be a better fill-in
12:22 tcort: jkridner: I’m also waiting on hardware (Weather Cape). I’ve got other stuff to work on for the moment, but I’d really like to get it soon. The Matt Lemire @ Carleton University address in the spreadsheet is still valid.
12:23 jkridner: ds2, bradfa: if I need to make you primary mentor in order to get jj2baile’s evaluation done, are either of you able to do that?
12:23 Error(401): #beagle-gsoc No such nick/channel
12:23 bradfa: jkridner, I have not been a good backup mentor for jj2baile
12:23 tcort: eFfeM: I should have enough to do for the next 2 or 3 weeks, but after that it becomes an issue.
12:24 eFfeM: ok
12:24 bradfa: jkridner, I would like to talk with you and ka6sox about my poor mentoring at some point
12:24 jkridner: tcort: I can order you some i2c devices from element14 like I did for the boards.
12:24 tcort: eFfeM: there are other BBB drivers I could work on, but that’d be a bit outside the original scope of my project.
12:24 jkridner: the BMP085 breakout is easy.
12:24 ds2: jkridner: for the midterm, yes but text me. I am on limited access til thur evening.
12:25 jkridner: k.
12:25 ds2: jj2baile: what hours r u awake? might need to spend some time to talk to u if I had to step in before fri noon.
12:26 jkridner: anybody stuck on software implementations?
12:26 ds2: I am on via N900 right now.
12:26 tcort: jkridner: sounds good.
12:26 jkridner: vmayoral: are you moving ahead? are you submitting Angstrom patches?
12:26 vvu: sees no major issues in his project. just need to read stuff
12:26 jkridner: vvu: what is your next step?
12:27 koen: jkridner: s/angstrom/meta-ros/
12:27 jkridner: koen: k.
12:27 vipulnayyar has left IRC (Quit: Leaving)
12:27 vvu: jkridner: at this moment i have a working eMMC flasher from Android
12:27 vvu: next step is to change g_serial communication to gadgetFS
12:27 jkridner: vvu: is that working from “FIT” files still?
12:27 tcort: software’s going well for me… tda19988 driver merged earlier this week, frame buffer enhancements are being tested, TPS65217 PMIC driver underway.
12:27 eFfeM: jkridner: tcort can you work out together what would be a good alternative that could be obtained on short notice ?
12:27 jkridner: is there a .img.xz to “FIT” conversion?
12:28 eFfeM: (although it would be nice to get the weather cape going)
12:28 jkridner: tcort: are you getting BeagleBoard-xM testers? Have you published the call for testing to
12:28 jj2baile: ds2: Tricky question. Generally between noon and midnight EST i’m guaranteed to be awake, Probably extending to 4am EST
12:28 vvu: jkridner: not sure if i am following you. now my app expects a folder on sdcard with 4 files; 3 of them i provided in an archive on my blog. the 4th one is the flash.img.xz that will be flashed
12:28 tcort: eFfeM: here’s some in-stock on mouser…
12:29 eFfeM: jkridner: I am planning to do the xm teesting, but it will probably be weekend before I get to it (and need to restock on sd cards)
12:29 tcort: jkridner: I’ve got a couple of people who said they would test it. I’ll try posting to the BeagleBoard google group.
12:29 jkridner: vvu: k, so it has to be on an SD card, not over-the-air? Are their over-the-air plans to flash-from-URL?
12:29 ds2: jj2baile: til u can confirm midterm is done, can u check/stay up a little? I know most of what u did was with ka6sox so I need info if I had to take care of it.
12:29 jkridner: got a Motorola dev phone at Maker Faire Detroit that could be interesting to test against.
12:29 vvu: jkridner: sure, why not. can be done. but 1st i want to change everything to gadgetFS communication then i can impleement over the air thingies
12:30 ds2: jj2baile: it won’t be today. it should just be thu night. I am on pdt and won’t have normalized access til Thu evening my time.
12:31 vvu: av500: regarding my project do you want also to see in it a way to boot a board with a normal rootfs not small ramdisk that i have right now ?
12:31 vvu: beside the flashing eMMC part
12:31 jkridner: vvu: k. Guess the gadgetFS implementation would work on any Linux host in addition to a phone? Why not implement on libusb which is portable to Mac/Windows?
12:31 vmayoral: jkridner: feels good on my side. ROS is running fine and i’m collaborating with meta-ros because soon we will push an official release. I just finished today coding a ROS node that publishes the MPU-9150 to a topic. It already cross-compiles. Ill modify it a bit and post it.
12:31 jj2baile: ok
12:32 jkridner: vmayoral: thanks.
12:32 av500: vvu: where yould the rootfs be stored?
12:32 jkridner: ZubairLK: what is your next step now that you have first patches staged upstream.
12:32 ds2: jj2baile: thanks.
12:32 vvu: jkridner: av500 said to take a look at gadgetFS. i need to get rid of g_serial because the serial driver buffer is 4k in size and transferring stuff is really slow
12:33 vvu: av500: everything < 500 megs
12:33 ZubairLK: jkridner: fixes are in staging
12:33 jkridner: k, not continuous, etc.
12:33 ZubairLK: i’m not aware that the continuous one went in too? did they?
12:33 av500: vvu: so still a ramdisk
12:33 vmayoral: jkridner: once i have the IMU and motors running through ROS ill make another little vidro
12:33 vmayoral: *video
12:33 jkridner: ZubairLK: I’ve seen some confusion around triggers…
12:33 ZubairLK: jkridner: still waiting on em. I’ll ping again.
12:33 ds2: av500: is gadgetfs u refering to usb mass storage?
12:33 vvu: av500: mhmh true…so in the same place
12:33 jkridner: shouldn’t it be possible to trigger with a level, like what is used to generate interrupts on touchscreens?
12:34 ZubairLK: jkridner: trigger on a per sample basis?
12:34 jkridner: ZubairLK: Is that clear just not coming across clear in the posts?
12:34 ZubairLK: jkridner: or trigger to start the buffer
12:34 jkridner: per sample or to start a continuous capture…
12:34 jkridner: much like a scope.
12:34 ZubairLK: iio treats triggers separately.
12:34 ZubairLK: atm the driver accepts any trigger
12:34 jkridner: hardware should be capable of generating interrupts to start a trigger.
12:34 ZubairLK: I tested it using sysfs based
12:35 ZubairLK: there is a gpio trigger from iio I haven’t tested
12:35 ZubairLK: it should work. I’ll do it and make a blog post about it
12:35 jkridner: triggering from userspace seems of some value, but having a GPIO would help and having ADC edge/level trigger would be most useful.
12:35 vvu: av500: switch to gadgetFS then work on over-the-air download .img works for you ?
12:35 ZubairLK: jkridner: shouldn’t be a biggy. I’ll do it and update on the blog
12:36 av500: vvu: yes
12:37 jkridner: tcort: per eFfeM, please follow-up with me on other hardware I can buy you from Farnell.
12:37 hatguy_ has joined (~Parav@
12:37 jkridner: anujdeshpande, hatguy: what is your next step?
12:37 jkridner: hatguy_: ^^^
12:37 hatguy_: damned connection
12:37 ZubairLK: jkridner: next steps: GPIO trigger. Resend patches on the kernel list as they didn’t get any response…
12:38 jkridner: ZubairLK: k. just wanting to make sure you are aware of the ADC hardware capability to generate an interrupt.
12:38 hatguy_: jkridner, we’ll be discussing next steps with prpplague this week… we need to make decision on how to go with Serial…
12:38 jkridner: hatguy_: are you blocked on coding?
12:38 tcort: jkridner: eFfeM: okay, I’ll look at Farnell’s site and send you an e-mail.
12:38 anujdeshpande: jkridner my work has been slightly slow this week. I’ve had some connectivity issues. Serials next. Followed by i2c spi
12:38 jkridner: tcort: thanks.
12:39 ZubairLK: jkridner: i don’t understand. adc generates an interrupt? :s
12:39 ZubairLK: The driver’s sampling is based on interrupts and fifos already.
12:39 hatguy_: jkridner, I had a few bugs which didn’t really block functionality but need to ironed out nonetheless
12:39 jkridner: ZubairLK: the ADC is able to generate an interrupt such that when the level goes to a certain point, an interrupt is generated. This is critical to reduce CPU overhead in the case of touchscreen.
12:40 anujdeshpande: jkridner no issues. We’ve had some help with testing from Rickta59 too(apart from our mentors)
12:40 vvu: av500: regarding coding i will be offline 4 days this month. 12th 13th 14th 15th, hope there is no issue. i will try to get the things above done until then
12:40 hatguy has left IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
12:40 ZubairLK: jkridner: could you elaborate what you mean by ‘level’? is it the fifo threshold?
12:40 ZubairLK: or analog signal level?
12:41 av500: vvu: ok
12:41 hatguy_: jkridner, we also had contact from the admin of he seemed to be interested in the arduino for linux cores
12:42 vmayoral has left IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
12:42 vmayoralv has joined (~Victor@
12:42 ds2: vvu: moving?
12:43 jkridner: believes analog signal level is possible and will confirm in the TRM.
12:43 vvu: ds2: going to the mountain a bit; i need to take a break for my eyes :slight_smile:
12:43 ZubairLK: jkridner: lightbulb moment mean the oscilloscope level trigger…
12:43 jkridner: hatguy_: awesome.
12:43 vmayoralv: Apologies it disconnected somehow
12:43 vmayoralv: Im vmayoral
12:43 jkridner: ZubairLK: yeah.
12:44 ZubairLK: jkridner: I’ll check… atm registers are configured for continuous sampling. the interrupt is generated when the fifo reaches a threshold. then samples are copied to userspace.
12:44 hatguy_: jkridner, he wanted a sample bbb to test out stuff… I think prpplague did send him (or intends to send him)
12:45 ds2: jj2baile: please say something to me, bradfa, pantos and jkridner if u did not hear anything about midterms by say the time u goto bed on Thu.
12:45 jkridner: hatguy_: if not, please connect him to me and I’ll send.
12:46 ZubairLK: jkridner: Can’t find it in TRM…
12:46 ZubairLK: Support for the following interrupts and status, with masking:
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt for HW pen (touch) event
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt for HW Pen Up event
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt after a sequence of conversions (all non-masked channels)
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt for FIFO threshold levels
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt if sampled data is out of a programmable range
12:46 ZubairLK: – Interrupt for FIFO overflow and underflow conditions
12:46 jkridner: ZubairLK: follow-up with me by e-mail (copy
12:46 hatguy_: jkridner, I think he did contact you a while before but somehow his emails missed you…
12:46 ZubairLK: – Status bit to indicate if ADC is busy converting
12:46 ds2: ZubairLK: out of range might do it
12:46 jkridner: let’s wrap up the official meeting and continue technical chat.
12:47 jkridner: any other business?
12:47 jkridner: raising gavel…
12:47 jkridner: 3…
12:47 jkridner: 2…
12:47 jkridner: 1…
12:47 anujdeshpande: Boom
12:47 jkridner: slam

11:54 jkridner: 5 minute warning
11:54 beng-nl: [x]
11:57 vvu has joined (~vvu@
11:58 vvu: helloWorld.c !
12:00 anujdeshpande: hello !
12:00 ZubairLK: :slight_smile:
12:00 ZubairLK: GM folks
12:00 tcort: hello
12:00 ZubairLK: hope everyone cleared the evaluation smoothly :slight_smile:
12:01 anujdeshpande: indeed
12:01 av500: hiho
12:02 jkridner: gm all
12:02 jkridner: I just realized I didn’t send out the transcript from last week. :frowning:
12:02 bradfa: gm jkridner
12:02 beng-nl: gm
12:03 jkridner: evals went smoothly, but we seem to have an issue with progress reports now.
12:03 vvu: jkridner: im right now writing week #7 12:03 hatguy: good morning :) 12:03 ZubairLK: progress report == blog posts? 12:04 vvu: im always with an offset of 2 days
12:04 jkridner: thank you tcort and ZubairLK for your reports. I also feel pretty well updated from anujdeshpande and hatguy on their project.
12:04 eFfeM has joined (
12:04 hatguy: is trying to make a habit of blogging every time he makes some progress (or not)
12:04 eFfeM: hi, sorry for being late
12:04 panto: mluckham, did you pinged me lately?
12:04 jkridner: I’ve seen some updates from vmayoral on Beagle-ROS as well…
12:04 jkridner: thanks for the new video.
12:05 jkridner: anyway, it is really appreciated if the blog posts make it clear where you are in your project vs. the goals stated at the beginning.
12:05 anujdeshpande: point noted.
12:05 jkridner: tcort: I guess you saw the e-mail thread about the weather cape?
12:05 vmayoral: all right
12:05 hatguy: yepp makes sense
12:06 tcort: jkridner: yes. thanks for working on ordering that.
12:06 jkridner: will that be enough or do I need to try to work the other components?
12:06 tcort: that will be enough
12:06 jkridner: seems your code is being upstreamed well and you are progressing on schedule with very timely updates. Thank you!!!
12:07 tcort: :slight_smile:
12:07 vmayoral: jkridner: i’m still missing the Audio cape and i already postponed it two weeks. So Koen and I agreed on using other sensors. It’s a slight change on the initial plan but i think it makes sense. Is it ok with you?
12:07 beng-nl: minix is very happy with it too :slight_smile:
12:07 jkridner: ZubairLK: really appreciate the patches going upstream and seeing the fixes going into the currently released kernel as well.
12:07 ZubairLK: jkridner: consulted with greg. slightly drifted towards focusing on upstreaming more… original proposal had a few tidbits here n there. main work is ok.
12:07 beng-nl: jkridner: i’ve been reproducing tcort’s work from mainline with success fwiw
12:07 ZubairLK: jkridner: thank-you jkridner . There was another fix upstream in mfd. :slight_smile:
12:08 ZubairLK: upstreamed*
12:08 beng-nl: (minix mainline ofcourse)
12:08 jkridner: vmayoral: sounds fine. I’ll check to see if I have your address and will order via boardzoo.
12:11 jkridner: just completed the action now so it wasn’t lingering…
12:11 jkridner: prpplague: There are boardzoo orders.
12:12 jkridner: av500: have you had a chance to reproduce vvu’s work?
12:13 prpplague: jkridner: for what?
12:13 jkridner: weather cape for tcort and audio cape for vmayoral.
12:13 av500: jkridner: was away for 3 weeks
12:14 av500: will do now
12:14 prpplague: jkridner: forward the order info to
12:14 prpplague: jkridner: he can follow up on it
12:14 jkridner: k
12:14 jkridner: thanks av500
12:15 jkridner: prpplague, hatguy, anujdeshpande: any concerns or updates?
12:15 prpplague: jkridner: not on my part
12:15 hatguy: jkridner: none really…
12:15 prpplague: jkridner: hatguy and anujdeshpande have been working hard for the last two weeks with code clean, error checking, and documentation
12:15 anujdeshpande: jkridner: ditto
12:16 prpplague: jkridner: we plan to start coding again with additional features starting a week from today
12:16 prpplague: jkridner: i am being paged to the production floor with a production stoppage, bbiab
12:18 jkridner: jj2baile: are you able to do some work in the near-term? are the development plans reasonable for you to complete before the final evaluations?
12:18 anujdeshpande: jkridner: we are also thinking of ways in which we could make our work on all operating systems. bradfa has some ideas tht we are debating. that’ll materialize into something in a few days, too beta now.
12:20 jj2baile: jj2baile: Not immediately, after the weekend, probably.
12:20 jkridner: would it help if you could pipe entries to capemgr rather than having them load from /lib/firmware?
12:20 jj2baile: jkridner: ^
12:20 jkridner: jj2baile: k
12:20 jj2baile: jkridner: I feel plans are still reasonable
12:21 jkridner: anujdeshpande, hatguy: is part of the cross-operating-systems issue having all of the required .dtbo files?
12:22 Ceriand has joined (~ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand)
12:22 hatguy: jkridner: : no no… its about supporting the ide in linux, windows and mac os… We don’t really like the idea of multiple cross-compilers
12:22 jkridner: ah.
12:22 hatguy: jkridner: we were thinking about native compiling
12:23 anujdeshpande: jkridner: bradfa had an idea in which we send the code for compilation to the BBB itself. so we are kind of thinking on those lines
12:23 jkridner: hatguy: I think that’d be great, if there was some way to trigger it.
12:23 jkridner: I like it. Would eventually need to work with included modules as well… at least to have a process.
12:24 hatguy: jkridner: native compiling wouldn’t be that difficult… I think copying the libraries would be
12:24 jkridner: if there was a step to install modules on the boards, it seems reasonable.
12:24 anujdeshpande: jkridner: tht could be done via ssh really …
12:24 jkridner: I don’t really have any other questions. Thank you all for the ping. What else do you need from me?
12:25 av500: beer
12:25 anujdeshpande: +1 to thaat
12:25 ZubairLK: free goodies :stuck_out_tongue:
12:25 vmayoral: :slight_smile:
12:26 jkridner: would gladly buy any one of you a beer if you were in the Michigan area.
12:27 vmayoral: koen: i have the GP2Y0A21YK0F
12:27 vmayoral: already working
12:27 jkridner: picked up some Melange socks to send out to the students at the end.
12:27 anujdeshpande: in that case plane tickets too :slight_smile: !
12:27 jkridner: :slight_smile:
12:27 ZubairLK:
12:28 vmayoral: i’ve got some other sensors with me so i’ll start with them.
12:28 vmayoral: Has anybody any kind of preferences regarding sensors to be interfaced with the BB through ROS?
12:29 vmayoral: I recently ordered some and i have pressure, gas, ambient light,
12:29 ZubairLK: accel/gyro?
12:29 anujdeshpande: vmayoral: ^^
12:29 vmayoral: already interfaced
12:29 ZubairLK: nice
12:30 av500: beer sensor?
12:30 vmayoral: haha
12:30 ZubairLK: ultrasound?
12:30 ZubairLK: something for range measurement…
12:30 vmayoral: koen requested that one
12:30 vmayoral: just finished it
12:30 ZubairLK: feels wise :stuck_out_tongue:
12:30 hatguy: vmayoral: a compass?
12:30 Ceriand: vmayoral: quadrature encoder
12:30 hatguy: +1
12:30 jkridner: k, I’ll try to get meeting minutes out this time!